Reporters complaints about Jack Gatecliff Rink

[dogman]

Article from the Guelph Mercury Newspaper

URL: guelphmercury.blogs.com/storm/2007/10/back-to-the-goo.html

Back to the good ol' days

There is something romantic, nostalgic and darn-right quaint about Jack Gatecliff Arena. Whether it's the overhanging press box, the wooden benches for seating or the fact you have to check for traffic before bending over to tie your shoe because the walkways are so small.

But from a business standpoint, one has to wonder how the Niagara IceDogs owners can make a go of it.
Place is supposed to house 2,600, so even sold out it would be hard to break even at the rink, which bears a resemblance to Guelph's old Memorial Gardens.

Yesterday's announced crowd was 2,284, but there couldn't have been more than 1,600-1,700 in the place. They must be using the same math that has been announcing crowds of well over 3,000 at the first few Storm home games.

* * * * *
Parking is a mess at the St. Catharines arena, particularly moreso for out-of-towners who don't know where the free parking is.

Guy close to the rink had a sign asking $5 to park in an alley. Not sure if the fella' owned the alley, but he definitely looked like he might have lived in it.

* * * * *

[dogman]

"Parking is a mess at the St. Catharines arena, particularly moreso for out-of-towners"

Parking is a mess for anyone not overly familiar with downtown St. Catharines. And even for those you are familiar, its still a 10 minute walk to the arena. Personally, I know a number of people who either will not attend the games due to parking or have attended and are not coming back because the parking was such a hassle.

I know that is hard for some of you die hard hockey fans to believe. However, there are a number of people who view the IceDogs, not as the greatest thing to happen to this area, but simply as another option for their entertainment dollar. For a family of four to attend IceDogs games your looking at close to $100 after food. If it becomes a hassle to attend the games, either because of parking, or uncomfortable seats, or cramped walkways, they are not going to come back. They will instead decide to spend the night at the movies, or go to the casino, or go out for a nice dinner. So you are left with all the die hard fans who will put up with the hassle because for them, they love junior hockey and there is no alternative.

[dogfan]

Has anyone looked into a shuttle bus from the four pad? Lots of parking there. A nice drive through downtown on a rowdie fan bus. Or maybe the city could run special shuttle that runs through the city on game days and goes to the arena.

[chooch]

I've parked at both the lower lot and behind the bingo, both spots "within" 10 minutes walking. I still don't buy the lack of parking argument. How lazy are people getting? I was walking into the game and seen a few cars with young people driving around the rink trying to get as close as possible. If an older coot like myself can survive walking 7-8 minutes then I'm sure these young uns wont die doing the same.

[fishfan51]

[quote author=dogman board=icedogs thread=1192548154 post=1192549081
Parking is a mess for anyone not overly familiar with downtown St. Catharines. And even for those you are familiar, its still a 10 minute walk to the arena. Personally, I know a number of people who either will not attend the games due to parking or have attended and are not coming back because the parking was such a hassle.
[/quote]

So I'm guessing that you personally know a lot of lazy people. What hassle? A 10 minute walk is normal for a sporting event. Unless you are going to a JR.B game where you can have a whole section to yourself, you are going to have to walk a few steps.

Anyone that uses parking as an excuse is lazy period. If you can't afford it because it is pricey for families that's different but walking all of 10 minutes is a lame excuse.

[Kevin]

How many businesses have relocated from downtown citing lack of parking as the reason for the move. Lazy or not, it does keep people away. I know several people who have told me they do not attend IceDogs games because of the lack of parking. Some are seniors and have a difficult time walking while others have young children. I park in the low level parking lot and have a young son who attends all the games with me. When he is tired, its a chore getting him to walk back to the car in the low level lot.

[dawgr]

A 10 minute walk and free parking is a blessing. Buffalo Sabre games are 10-15 min and $5-$20; Toronto Maple Leafs games are 10-15min and $10-$20.

[charger]

i think they should learn our to count in guelph i was at the game and i thought there were slighlty more people then the announced crowd. in the four home games i have gone to the crowd count in st.catharines looks correct.

[hockey123]

Both side 95% percent filled. Ends 40% filled. I think the reported attendance is correct. Also there are several season ticket holders around me that do not show up every game. I don't think they're including those people even though their seats are sold.

[coldpooch]

The parking at this rink is not an issue, but I am sorry to say the rink is the pits. If anybody in IceDogs land has seen some of the other OHL facilities they would hang their heads.

Once the honeymoon of owning a Major Team wears off on the Burkes they will come to the realization that loosing money in that building is no fun.

They have done an outstanding job so far, but a new building is a must for long term prosperity.

[excanucksfan]

I agree that the building itself is turning away people but I now think that parking is also a problem. The IceDogs seemed determined to direct fans to park in the lower level lot behind St. Paul Street.

Does anyone know how far the lower level lot is from the main entrance of the arena? Using Gmaps I have determined that the closest parking stall in the lower level lot is 605 meters from the main arena doors. That is the same distance as parking in the General Hospital parking lot and walking to the arena, which I am pretty sure no one does. If you use the season ticket holder entrance by Division street, you could also park at the corner of Geneva and Welland Ave. and that would be the same distance as parking in the lower level lot.

Looking at it another way, you could park in the Carisle street parking garage across from the MTO and walk all the way down St. Paul street to the corner of Ontario and St. Paul and that is less than 600 meters. In fact, pretty much the entire downtown is within 600 meters of the Carisle street parking garage.

If you are from Niagara Falls, 600 meters would be like parking in front of the adventure dome near the bottom of Clifton Hill and walking all the way to the Memorial Arena. I attended Thunder games and no one parked as far away as the bottom of Clifton Hill for the games, yet parking was a big complaint there as well.

I'm not sure if there are spots available closer than the lower level lot, but that lot should not be considered a parking lot for the games. Making the lot even more difficult to use is the fact that you have to walk up the hill to get to the arena and being so wide open, it will be very cold in the winter.

And I even checked where I park when I attend Sabres games. The answer, 300-400 meters away from the entrance of the arena and the 400 meter lot I have never seen full, even with a sellout.

[tapeball]

---hence, most ( not all) of the above comments leads me to believe why we are now known as the Gripe and Whine Region.

Kevin---parking meters vrs free parking
rundown buildings
drugs
prostitution
and safety were bigger reasons why people left
downtown, not lack of parking as you have suggested.

[hockeyobserver]

i have parked at carlisle and its a nice walk... we can all take a few minute walk.. come on here. its the price we pay vs. actually paying a price..
the only concerns i have are as tapeball mentioned - the bad news surrounding. i remember the first night i parked on a sidestreet, and right across the street was a prostitute waiting for someone to pick her up.. not ideal to bring you kids around

[Kevin]

tapeball said:

---hence, most ( not all) of the above comments leads me to believe why we are now known as the Gripe and Whine Region.

Kevin---parking meters vrs free parking
rundown buildings
drugs
prostitution
and safety were bigger reasons why people left
downtown, not lack of parking as you have suggested.

I am not denying that there are other downtown concerns as well. However, parking is one of them. Perhaps I should have said businesses have left downtown due to the lack of parking in the immediate area.

Here is an excerpt from a report from the city of St. Catharines:

Parking Strategy
In 2006, the City of St. Catharines approved a Downtown parking Strategy to proactively address parking demands associated with future growth in the area. Research through this initiative found that, though the downtown parking system is only at 70 per cent capacity, there are specific areas in the downtown that are operating above capacity and an increase of 450 spaces will be required to satisfy future demand. In 2007 the City will assess potential strategies to address future demand, and meet development needs when the Carlisle parking garage is replaced.

It is also interesting to note Tapeball that in Kingston, they are finishing up building their new rink. However, there was quite a bit complaining there too. The consultants report suggested that there was ample parking for the proposed facility within a 600 meter radius of the facility. Many residents felt that up to 600 meters was too far to walk.

Here is an excerpt I found on the web regarding the parking situation for the new Kingston arena. CastleGlenn I believe is the consultant for the Kingston Arena Project:

But where does the 600m criteria come from in the first place? They don't say. It's vastly in excess of modern design guidelines for parking and pedestrian access. For comparison, the worst parking scenario when moviegoing at the RioCan Cineplex would be to park, say, by Home Depot close toGardiners Road. The distance between the Cineplex Odeon and Gardiners Road via the centre roadway is 450 metres +/- 10. The distance CastleGlenn suggests, 600m to the best entrance, is well beyond the worst possible park and walk scenario you can possibly get at almost any mall in North America...

People complain everywhere about parking, not just in Niagara.

[hercor]

We can complain all we want about the parking and the arena for that matter, nothing will change until if and when a new arena is build . Yes the parking is a mess and the arena is not what We would like it to be and It's a deterrent for a lot of people that would come to games if conditions were better, but it is what it is for now hopefully things will change, they'll have to if this team is going to survive and I'm sure the League is not crazy about the situation either They wanted to be in this area at all costs and we we were the beneficiary of their desperation , There is a time limit to all this ,that is all issues must be resolved in 5 years and I imagine that 2 years is all we have and a commitment from someone must be made by then or We are back to square one.
I don't Know what plans Mr: Burke has I just hope that it includes the Niagara Region I'm sure He will investigate all options that will become available to Him .
The one thing that I would like to see that I feel is not happening is to promote the team better in other cities, I understand that the home rink is where it is and there is a certain amount of loyalty , The Ice Dogs are still considered a Niagara team and should be more recognizable in other communities.

[chooch]

hercor said:

There is a time limit to all this ,that is all issues must be resolved in 5 years and I imagine that 2 years is all we have and a commitment from someone must be made by then or We are back to square one.

Where does this come from? First time I heard it. All I ever remember reading is that the Jack is the home of the Dogs, period. Not the temporary home. All the talk about a new rink has come from the fans and media, not the team ownership, unless I missed something.

[sportscrazy]

David Branch said on TV that the Gatecliff arena is OK for now but a new rink is necessary if the team is to stay longterm. I don't think he has set a specific time period but knows that the team will lose money until they move into a new rink.

As for parking, I am surprised how far the lower level lot is. Infact, its quite shocking. I cannot think of any other building in Niagara that uses a parking lot so far away. I think there is closer parking to be found, but you have to drive around a little to find it. Most people park in the lower level because the sign directs people there, but I wish they could find a lot closer to direct people to.

Herc, I agree, they do need to market better in other parts of the Region. I think they are still playing catch up from the busy summer. Hopefully once they get caught up they will start to look at the other cities in the region more.

[coldpooch]

Being from out of town and not ever having to find a parking spot I think the parking thing has been exaggerated.

I pull up from Geneva see the sign turn left onto the lower lot and Viola, a spot. Get out walk not even 10 Min's, by the way is just the same distance as parking in the Hershey Center lot, and we are there.

I do not even leave 1 hr early anymore. No problem HERE at finding a parking spot.

However I will say again the Dogs do NEED a new rink.

[excanucksfan]

I was just playing with Gmaps again and discovered that the parking lot at the Golf and Country Club on Westchester is actually closer than the lower level lot. Its about 550 meters away. Of course you have to cross the bridge which will be cold in the winter.

[coldpooch]

Just go through reading some post on the Battalion Message board...

p219.ezboard.com/fthenewbramptonbattalionforumfrm2.showMessage?topicID=1773.topic

about their attendance woes. One post really made me laugh, it was a complaint about PARKING for crying out loud. Now I do not know if anybody here has been to their rink, but they have a parking lot around the rink as large as the eye can see. They want a shuttle service, where have I heard that before. Man Oh Man, it made me choke.

[hockeyobserver]

excanucksfan said:

I was just playing with Gmaps again and discovered that the parking lot at the Golf and Country Club on Westchester is actually closer than the lower level lot. Its about 550 meters away. Of course you have to cross the bridge which will be cold in the winter.

yah but is that taking into account pedestrian routes... or do you plan on walking over the highway and through the ravine areas???
come on... lets stop the complaining
parking is free.. we are an obese region... lets enjoy the fresh crisp autumn air..

[niagarafan12]

Went to Missy last night at the Hershey Center.....nice arena.....onsite parking....7 o'clock start...no Leaf game as competition....Taveras in town.....1718 people.....guess if the people dont want to come....it does'nt really matter where or when they play

[groulxisright]

niagarafan12 said:

Went to Missy last night at the Hershey Center.....nice arena.....onsite parking....7 o'clock start...no Leaf game as competition....Taveras in town.....1718 people.....guess if the people dont want to come....it does'nt really matter where or when they play

Can you really blame the people there for not showing up? last season you had a team that was.....

Mississauga IceDogs 68 43 21 0 4 for a total of 90 points

Larry Melnyk decided to replace them with a team that was....

Toronto St. Michael's Majors 68 20 41 4 3 for a total of 47 points.

.........yeah, I'd be a little miffed about that if I lived there.

[excanucksfan]

hockeyobserver said:

excanucksfan said:

I was just playing with Gmaps again and discovered that the parking lot at the Golf and Country Club on Westchester is actually closer than the lower level lot. Its about 550 meters away. Of course you have to cross the bridge which will be cold in the winter.

yah but is that taking into account pedestrian routes... or do you plan on walking over the highway and through the ravine areas???
come on... lets stop the complaining
parking is free.. we are an obese region... lets enjoy the fresh crisp autumn air..

All measurements were using pedestrian routes. In the case of the Golf club it was down Geneva street over the 406 overpass.